Today, the Thessaloniki State Symphony Orchestra performs in the historic “Golden Hall” of the Musikverein (Music Association) in Vienna, giving the world premiere of the Concerto for Ancient Greek Lyre, commissioned by the orchestra from the renowned composer Fazil Say, with Nikos Xanthoulis as soloist. The program also includes works by Konstantinidis, Tchaikovsky (soloist Jeremias Fliedl, cello), and Dmitri Shostakovich’s 9th Symphony. On the occasion of this significant performance, we spoke with the concert’s conductor and collaborator of the great composer, Thomas Sanderling.
Both your father, conductor Kurt Sanderling, and you yourself, had a personal relationship with the composer Dmitri Shostakovich and his family. How did this shape your interpretation of his music?
Dmitri Shostakovich was a genius, and like all geniuses, he was unique. His life, moreover, was very particular. Coming into personal contact with him, collaborating with him, being in his home (he later came to my apartment in East Berlin too) and meeting him on private occasions, has an impact and influences the understanding of his work.
Did you connect with him very early on?
I grew up with Shostakovich’s music in Leningrad; at that time, my parents took me to hear it: it’s my childhood. Leningrad, St. Petersburg, is also Shostakovich’s birthplace. He moved to Moscow because he was more protected there, but his birthplace, his city from an emotional point of view, was St. Petersburg. It cannot be explained in words, for me who grew up in this environment: the climate, the nature, the city with so many rivers, the Baltic Sea, the granite, all such unique elements.
Did you discuss his works with him?
For Shostakovich, it was very important for the performer to be able to recognize the spiritual content of his music. He himself did not like to talk about it. For various reasons, he did not like to talk about the spiritual content and ideas of his music. It is a result of his life.
Meaning?
After Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk and Stalin’s articles, even when he was no longer in danger, he never wanted to talk about what his music was about. He expected the performer to have the talent to understand the content of his music. And yes, he had to trust the performers, and his comments were almost exclusively about technical matters, such as typographical errors – he hated typographical errors – and practical issues. And that’s why it’s important to know him, his personality, his character, to know what he said and what he wanted to say with his music.
Can you give us an example?
Recently, the last time I conducted the 15th Symphony, it was in Paris in January. In the finale, most listeners recognize the quotations from Die Walküre, Tristan, and then the heart stops… But even Russians rarely understand the reference to Rossini’s William Tell in the first movement. He never spoke about it, but it is a symbol: it comes from the poet Friedrich Schiller, it is about freedom.
So, this understanding presupposes shared experiences.
Even Yevgeny Mravinsky, in the first work by Shostakovich he conducted, which was the 5th Symphony, said that he didn’t like too many questions at all. So Mravinsky very quickly changed his communication style, and only tried to understand when Shostakovich agreed or when he felt he wasn’t being understood correctly.
How did you collaborate with him musically?
My first collaboration with Shostakovich was the German premiere of his 14th Symphony. It was after a concert with the Staatskapelle Dresden. At that time, Shostakovich was on holiday in Gohrisch near Dresden, and he entrusted me with the German premiere of his 14th Symphony. Of course, I was very young and extremely happy, but then there was another surprise: he requested that the text be in German. It was a huge task entrusted to me.
The concert was with the Berlin Symphony Orchestra, today the Konzerthaus Orchestra, and it was translated. Afterwards, he again entrusted me with the German premiere of the 13th Symphony, again requesting a German version of the text. And after I wrote it, and he told several people I know that he was very satisfied with the result, his wish was also for the same to be done for the Michelangelo Suite, his last orchestral work. He wanted the work to be in the language of the audience. Later, in consultation with his wife, I also prepared editions in the original language of the texts.
He did not conduct his own works.
Shostakovich conducted his works only once; Rostropovich convinced him, but he considered conducting a serious profession, so he avoided doing it himself.
Now you will collaborate with another composer, Fazil Say, for the world premiere of a new work, a Concerto for Ancient Greek Lyre. How easy is it to integrate the ancient instrument into a modern orchestra?
This is my first collaboration with Fazil Say, and it’s his first time writing for the ancient Greek lyre. He needed to familiarize himself with the instrument, to learn how it’s constructed and what its capabilities are. It’s something new for him – and for me too, a concerto for ancient Greek lyre is something new for everyone! I think he managed very well, although this question would be better posed to Nikos Xanthoulis, who is the soloist and the expert on the ancient Greek lyre.
Regarding sound balances, Nikos Xanthoulis is an experienced musician; in the past, he also played as an orchestra musician, trumpet. The orchestration is very professional, and Fazil Say has talent as a composer. In our phone conversation, he was very happy because I discovered four typos in the score! He was happy that I checked the score very carefully. It’s an atmospheric, melancholic piece, lasting about 15 minutes. It’s a good work by a good composer.
Is it an advantage that the orchestra will perform at the Vienna Philharmonic with a conductor who knows the venue? By the way, did you know that the main donor for the Philharmonic building was the Greek Nikolaos Dumba?
No, I didn’t know Nikolaos Dumba! The Musikverein in Vienna is not only a very famous but also an important hall, and it’s good when a conductor is familiar with the hall’s particular character and sound – in fact, it’s absolutely essential. Fortunately, the hall was made available to us for a full rehearsal.
Is this your first collaboration with the T.S.S.O. or have you worked together before?
This is my second collaboration with the Thessaloniki State Symphony Orchestra. It is a very good orchestra, and the first time we collaborated, we performed a German program with Brahms’ 4th Symphony. Since then, I have very fond memories of our beautiful collaboration, the good chemistry, and the satisfying result.
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